tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post8704946715509510628..comments2024-03-27T21:41:50.122-07:00Comments on Iron Tongue of Midnight: The Gods Shouldn't Talk Like the People Next DoorLisa Hirschhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14014924958428072675noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-32781452997742801792011-07-21T13:01:32.135-07:002011-07-21T13:01:32.135-07:00That is, "interestingly." That's an ...That is, "interestingly." That's an embarrassment. But at least I can use the heat as an excuse.Joe Barronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638252347181688694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-70994806687336744602011-07-20T17:18:22.744-07:002011-07-20T17:18:22.744-07:00Interesting, thank you!Interesting, thank you!Lisa Hirschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14014924958428072675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-42411592900654577882011-07-20T17:02:53.799-07:002011-07-20T17:02:53.799-07:00Vom Niblung jüngst vernahm ich die Mär',
daß e...Vom Niblung jüngst vernahm ich die Mär',<br />daß ein Weib der Zwerg bewältigt,<br />des' Gunst Gold ihm erzwang:<br /><br />My own (somewhat literal) translation:<br /><br />Of the Nibelung I recently heard the story, <br />that the dwarf has taken a woman<br />whose favor he extorted with gold. <br /><br />Inrerstetingly, "bewältigt" is present tense (past would be "bewältigte"), so his "mastering" of her could be ongoing.Joe Barronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638252347181688694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-65498887773701336892011-07-17T22:13:05.792-07:002011-07-17T22:13:05.792-07:00As a Nibelung, he might have had access to materia...As a Nibelung, he might have had access to materials from the earth other than the Rheingold.<br /><br />I like going to opera! And I have a blog exactly so I can talk about whatever I want, including second and third thoughts about performances I see.Lisa Hirschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14014924958428072675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-16890160249293425692011-07-17T18:09:43.777-07:002011-07-17T18:09:43.777-07:00The last line may be translated as "whose fav...The last line may be translated as "whose favor gold won for him." It doesn't sound to me like rape. Erzwingen has the connotation of force or extortion, but I think Wagner is using it to show how unsavory the transaction was, that the woman's judgment was overcome by greed. So "seduced for money" is legit. (But where did Alberich get said gold? Wasn't the Rhinegold stolen from him? Or does he have a stash we don't know about?)<br /><br />Anyway, why do people even go to the opera anymore? It seems like you spend huge amount of money, and then all they do is nitpick. Or is that part of the pleasure, like Monday morning quarterbacking?Joe Barronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638252347181688694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-7580516492963869672011-07-11T16:10:03.602-07:002011-07-11T16:10:03.602-07:00Google Translate offers "mastered, overcame&q...Google Translate offers "mastered, overcame" for the verb, bewältigt. However, the whole sentence is tricky and my German is bad:<br /><br />Vom Niblung jüngst<br />vernahm ich die Mär',<br />dass ein Weib der Zwerg bewältigt,<br />des' Gunst Gold ihm erzwang:<br /><br />I can't get a clear translation of the sentence about the gold.Lisa Hirschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14014924958428072675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-81922791601715385132011-07-11T16:01:27.576-07:002011-07-11T16:01:27.576-07:00Hmmm, OK, that is the passage I was (generally) th...Hmmm, OK, that is the passage I was (generally) thinking of -- is it usually translated "overpowered"? In which case, yeah, a case could be made that he raped her, which would fit thematically. I kind of sympathize with Alberich, though, so I guess I was hoping his lovelessness went as far as prostitution but not into rape.Patrick J. Vazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09279528648512493917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-47740181314111138212011-07-11T15:45:16.065-07:002011-07-11T15:45:16.065-07:00"They're 13" is Zambello's expla..."They're 13" is Zambello's explanation. I should have asked her where she got that from, but I think the answer is that it's what makes sense to her. Your explanation makes more sense to me.<br /><br />Here's the English translation of a chunk of Wotan's ranting in Walkuere Act II, scene II:<br /><br />\Away, then<br />with lordly splendour,<br />divine pomp<br />and shameful boasting!<br />Let it fall to pieces,<br />all that I built.<br />I give up my work.<br />Only one thing I want now:<br />the end,<br />the end!<br /><br /><br /><br />And for that end<br />Alberich is working.<br />Now I understend<br />the hidden meaning<br />of the wise woman's wild words:<br />"When Love's dark enemy<br />begets a son in anger,<br />the end of the Blessed ones<br />will not be long delayed."<br /><br />Of the Nibelung<br />I recently heard a rumour<br />that a woman was overpowered by the dwarf<br />and seduced for money.<br />The fruits of his hatred<br />a woman is carrying:<br />his envy at full strength<br />is stirring in her womb.<br /><br />Bribery, rape, or both?Lisa Hirschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14014924958428072675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8957911.post-73626321151554840202011-07-11T15:39:12.910-07:002011-07-11T15:39:12.910-07:00The Rhine Daughters are 13? Where is that coming f...The Rhine Daughters are 13? Where is that coming from? They're water creatures, and most water creatures in mythology (mermaids, the sirens, the Lorelei) are alluring and cold-blooded. That seems like enough of an explanation for their treatment of Alberich. I wouldn't say they're "good" or "bad" -- I'd say they're not guiltless though.<br /><br />About Hagen's mother: You may be remembering something specific in the libretto that I've forgotten, but I don't think that she's actually raped; isn't she "suborned by gold"? It's not a happy and wholesome relationship, but rape implies physical non-consensual force and I think that wasn't the situation with Hagen's mother.Patrick J. Vazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09279528648512493917noreply@blogger.com